One of the scariest verses in the Bible for me is the verse where Jesus says something like this, "By this will all men know that you are my disciples; if you have love one for another." In Australia we have more Christian denominations then we do other religions combined. And all of these denominations are staunchly following after that which they are convinced God has given them as a community in the Christian world to do. But Jesus was giving the world the opportunity to look at us and to see what they could see. They see several different denominations going several different ways even on basic biblical doctrine. Some defend the faith others the church others the methodology employed by some churches. What does the world see? Abortion is ethical today in Australia but in contrast to what other belief system? Surely not Buddhism where 'personality' doesn't even exist or the sciences where nobody is there to ask or speak. This means our Christian position philosophically is a very weak one indeed because murder or abortion according to the biblical tradition is both legal and ethical today. 88,000 potential Australian citizens are killed every year in Australia for whatever reasons and they are funded by medicare. I am not pointing the finger here but merely stating the facts as the world sees it. Our world is postmodern which means post-Christian which means the Judeo Christian tradition ranks far behind all the other belief systems as abortion and infanticide show us in Australia. We may not be a third world country but our framework for thinking certainly is. We were ranked last in the world on indigenous affairs by the UN and in Australia indigenous health was reportedly 20 years behind the rest of Australia. What does the world see when it thinks about the church. From an indigenous perspective, not much other than regulations traditions that are mostly foreign to normal logic. The rest of Australia simply follows after the dominant thought forms on society without a thought about them. As Christian watchman I believe we are failing our non-Christian world by not addressing them intellectually but rather dealing with consequences of their thought forms after the fact. Margret didn't mention anything about a unified field of knowledge amongst the churches she went to but rather own visions. Jesus can mean one thing to one Christian and another to the person sitting next to them. We certainly don't act as if we know the same Jesus.

G'Day all

People who spend their time searching for the "perfect" church will never be happy. The truth is, that churches are full of "imperfect" people.
If you hang around a church long enough, you will be offended or disagree with something that was said or done. It's how you choose to react to that "offence" which makes the difference.
We have been called to love our brothers & sisters & help the needy in our community & our world. That's exactly what Hillsong do! Is it a perfect church? No! Would we be a poorer world without the many thousands of people Hillsong has fed both spiritually & physically? Yes we would!
Christianity is about handing control of your life to Jesus, & whilst Margaret wishes to be the one in control, she will never find the God she's looking for!

Warmly
Andrew

Jean Paul Sartre French existentialist philosopher rightly said that there were two basic philosophic questions related to metaphysics, existence and to morals or personality. This is because something rather than nothing is there as Sartre also said. When we open our eyes in the morning, something is there and furthermore something in contrast to that something is also there; you and I are there. what Margret is seeking for is what Jean Paul Sartre is referring to and this applies to all of humanity as well. The two basic philosophic questions are; who am I and where did I come from? We might express it in this way today; who am I and what is wrong with me? SO far the only belief system that has successfully answered these questions is the Judeo Christian tradition. Love and communication have always occurred between the members of the Trinity and this is the only explanation for the existence of love and its value. If Margret were to try and find an alternative answer to the Christian answer she couldn't. Buddhism begins with the impersonal as do the sciences. These systems reject the notion of absolutes which means they cannot know anything with any certainty. Christian's need to understand their system in contrast to secualr philosophy otherwise we shall be talking to ourselves only. we are not the dominant philosophical position but the minority as abortion which is ethical today shows us. It is ethical against the Bible and only the Bible. We Christian's have not thought our position out very well and in the current weak intellectual climate we rate poorly. It saddens me that Margret is still searching and that nobody was able to put her in her right mind so that she could comprehend the truth.

OK, I’ve listened to the podcast. Interesting. Here is a person who has come into churches with an awful lot of baggage. It was interesting that one of her early comments in the interview was the big emphasis on a personal relationship with God, yet when she was asked for what she had learned about becoming a Christian this cornerstone did not come up.

Again I recommend “Jim and Casper goes to Church” if people have found this interesting. Casper is self-confessed atheist who agreed to do a “secret shopper” routine on some of the biggest & best known churches in the US”. It was interesting that he found some of the things that Margaret did as he toured around. It was also interesting that the church that affected him the most was a little local fellowship that was quietly revolutionising it’s community, one person at a time.

My personal opinion about the other main reason that Margaret was not able to have a clear understanding of God is that is the Church usually does not really know what to use the services for. I’ve come to believe that the role of church leadership is to equip the rest of the church to do the actual work of God (Eph 4:11-13), but we Christians tend to instead herd everyone towards the central Pastor/Minister/etc to “do the work”. So instead of regularly meeting together for the encouragement of the believers, the service has to become sort of a “one stop supermarket” for everyone from the mature believer to the seeker. Worse, as we’ve become more and more of a passive, self serving culture, we’re all demanding the “hired help” in the Church provide us with value for money entertainment – demanding bigger and better. So I’m not overly surprised that Margaret came away from the experience without a definite picture of God nor am I surprised that what affected her most was the people she met that had changed after meeting God. God’s all about relationships and all about loving His children into being more Christlike. When people meet God by seeing a little of Him in us, by hearing from our experiences what God’s really like they will be challenged. When God meets them through us they will be changed. God’s like that.

Thanks! I personally think the author is right to have questions - so thanks for letting her share them. It's nice to see hear honesty :0) Even when it hurts... After 18 years of "being a Christian" and growing up in Christian house, I too have many questions... We will always learn... but honestly I''m interested to hear her experience of the churches as I too hope to help people come to know our amazing God. However, when I asked God to use me, I seemed to take many steps back! I no longer "knew" how to "fit in" with other Christians as I don''t seem to "speak" the same language... I don''t want to feel pressure to do stuff I don''t feel I can put heart into. I too have questions. What does it mean to be a washed with the blood?? Crikey. I just need God to prove who He is. I just want people to be real. No wordiness. To just Love. Live. Grow. Understand. Share with me what God has really done... for YOU personally and teach me how!! That''s what inspires me to too trust God to do what He can. (... and the fact that God has promised to use our brokenness and experience to bring real love and HOPE to the world :0) ! --- God thanks for your patience!) And as for our friend here, Only when questions are asked, will they be answered... :0) That''s what I''m finding... hehe. Or haven''t found, when I have just wandered aimlessly without voicing opinions or questions! ;0) God is sooooo good. So faithful... If she would like, I''d love to share with her what He has done for me....

Hi,

I don't think there's a problem with worshipping God differently, so long as we do not have infighting because of it. Let's face it: same God, same love, same eternal life. People will always be different and people will always have different ways of interpreting the bible. Unless it is in direct violation of the bible (Leviticus 20:13), we should still accept what others believe and still love them, however difficult it may be. Jesus came to Jew and Samaritan alike and did not say that either people were wrong in worshipping God in different places. Instead he gave them something to unite them: it would soon not matter where they worshipped, they could commune with God wherever they were. Some churches will be right for some people, other churches for other people. The variety is what we need; a choice to worship differently and the chance to experience God's love in different ways.

Hope I haven't blabbed on too much!

Jess

There was a good book recently done on this. It was in the US & a Christian Author teemed up with an athiest and they did a similar sort of thing, just slightly condensed.

It's called "Jim and Casper go to church" http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=Resource&ResourceID=271 and had some very hard-hitting truths about the modern Christianity. I missed part of the interview so I'm hoping that it'll be up on a podcast so I can here the whole bit.

HI its me again,
I was listening to the show tonight and I herd a man saying that he wouldn't acept anything that had no proof beind it and started talking about evolution and gravity and about how they are both unproven and that how science is all unproven, it is all theory. I have to disagree, Gravity is actually proven, it is one of Newtons Laws, i think it is the first, but it is a Law while evolution is still only a theory.
He then whent on to say that if he was ever wrong that he would want to know, i'm not trying to take the micky out of him, but this is just to explain that he is wrong.
Thanks for listening to me.
D.C-Man

Hi,
Well I think that what Margaret Simons had to say was fair enough, but to go from one church to the next is going to give someone mixed feelings about the others.
I can't say I belong to a denomination at all, I go to a Presbyterian Church with one of my older firends, I go to Hillsong with some of my younger friends, I go to a uniting church with my family, and have been to may other denomination churches with other people, but when I first started going I found that I would hear one thing somewhere and somthing else another place, it was really confronting and i think that this was my barrier, but after a while I started getting into small groups at the different churches where I disscussed what was being said, and although it sounded like it was contredictory to me, it made sence after I could talk about it with other people.
When it come to the end of the day, we all follow Christ so why divide our selfs.
Thats my 2 cents.
D.C-Man